UKM - The tale's the thing - UK

subtle · 13-06-2010, 16:13

Really a question for those who like to see the same PD / sub / client over a long period of time: is a sense of narrative important to you? Do you like to see your sessioning as a kind of progress or development, or are you happier if things stay more or less the same?

I guess the danger with stories is that they can lead inexorably to endings, but equally there may be plenty of twists and turns along the way. Do any PDs consciously create a sense of narrative with long-term clients, or do you think it's something that emerges more organically?

13-06-2010, 16:47

We tend to do the same things now. Having been with her for such a long time we've experimented with/tried a number of things and we are at the stage where we both enjoy the things that we enjoy.

Ours is very D/s based so some of the words she uses to underline this do develop and there are fantasy story lines which she enhances from time to time (especially when she gets a reaction!!!)

Entropy Tango · 13-06-2010, 17:11

Wow. Great idea for a post.

I guess it would depend on what sense you’re using the term narrative.

If you’re sticking to a very rigid definition of it then maybe it’s only relevant to people who are into role-play... maybe with a common, underlying theme... and then each different session could become like a different chapter from the same novel. Yeah it might end... but those same characters can be spun off into a sequel :-)

On the other hand, the concept of "journey" and it’s resemblance to narrative as a progression of elements in a session from a specific (novice?) starting point is also interesting. Now I personally link BDSM to pain play... so my views on narrative application to that is really the only thing I can personally, legitimately put down on this thread... but it seems to me that although I personally like the idea of a constant building up of elements (and in some ways this is actually what I’m getting... and not just in the pain thing... I was wearing a bloody maids uniform in the last session for goodness sake... now there’s a narrative twist I didn’t expect a year ago) I can see that a constant narrative build through a series of sessions is something that will have to be done very slowly. I guess there are two ways this could be applied to pain... and please correct me if I’m wrong because I almost certainly am as I haven’t been doing this stuff for very long.

1. A sense of increased... um... ferocity at various activities and the body’s eventual resilience to things could be considered an important narrative hook (and I consider myself a lightweight in some ways but I am always going to go back to try to put that right).

2. The other thing a domme might do is to vary the method of pain delivery I guess. Although this would presumably also have to be done very slowly because new equipment is expensive and you don’t want to be continually having to buy new, different equipment because your sub thinks s/he has seen it/done it all is my guess. Maybe customers like me in a professional relationship are a bonus in that kind of situation because I have a head like a sieve and so after a year or so I might forget I’ve done half the stuff and then it all seems new and fresh to me.

Well that would be my take on it anyway.

folly · 13-06-2010, 20:33

This is a really interesting one. Realistically, there will be few dominants in any sphere of BDSM capable of acting out a long-term (several years) role-play. A good and sorted dominant will, I'd have thought, be sufficiently confident to be themselves through their own vicissitudes, so that the sub doesn't see too much that is different. Or the sub will be brought into the knowledge, depending on the degree of familiarity, trust and confidence, between them.

Constructing a narrative is easy for me in terms of my introduction to BDSM, and my finding a way after that initial set of encounters. I have my own set of - let's call them moments - within my current play relationship, but there's no linear narrative there, as such. It's more about the moment, but within a framework that is joyfully painful, hopefully always respectful, and certainly in awe.

Narratives tend to be linear. Kink life is much more about the here and now.

13-06-2010, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by folly

Narratives tend to be linear. Kink life is much more about the here and now.

I can go with this, my BDSM tale has been an evolving one, one where something is tried if it works it been expanded on if it did not then its either been put down to experience or tried in a different way.

I would hate to session to a script and I think Mistress is the same

14-06-2010, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefknot

I would hate to session to a script and I think Mistress is the same

Agreed

But I was more thinking of recurring themes or something in one session building on something that had happened in a previous session etc etc.

As has been said it's also about what the narrative is. If it's about an ongoing D/s relationship where roles/play evolve and are carried on from session to session than that's what we do and have done. If it's about the BDSM journey then probably no - there has been some exploration but I wouldn't see what we do in those terms

snook · 14-06-2010, 11:57

"But I was more thinking of recurring themes or something in one session building on something that had happened in a previous session etc etc."

That starts me thinking about the sequence of events arranged as chapters in Venus in Furs. That could be very interesting, and I could imagine a fantasy, perhaps interweoven with everyday life, played out in interludes, as a play or a film, but I think it would have to be a prescribed, created and shaped thing and a tall order except for a group like a theatre company, or for a couple who have a strong mutual vested interst in it's satisfactions. The input could be far beyond what it is reasonable to ask of a pro-domme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ftsnOO5lJI

geordiesouth · 15-06-2010, 08:23

Can only be answered by those in long term relationships with their domme I suppose.
For me narrative is something in a book and as for linear.
Don't Saab do a convertible one.

subtle · 16-06-2010, 21:23

Thanks for the comments guys.

I used to be in a situation where I felt (or hoped) that I was in a story where my Mistress knew what was going to happen and I didn't. This may have been largely illusory, but it did give the idea of a more prolonged surrender than a single session offers.

It never seemed to go quite according to plan, possibly because I'm usually much happier being the driver than the passenger, and had a few doubts about the storyline too.

Does kink have to be linear, folly? Lines can have kinks in them and still be lines

But I think you're right that the "here and now-ness" of the best of kink is deliciously non-linear (and can set us free from that tyranny of a timeline). Except that to become more aware of, and open to this freedom is to me personally another kind of development, or education perhaps.

Venus in Furs - I've found myself going down that route a little way, and wouldn't much fancy starring in the last chapters. (But as regards what it's reasonable to ask of a pro-domme, I think we should just keep raising the bar on that

)

Peter · 16-06-2010, 21:55

I wouldn't be unhappy if things stayed the same because I'm usually very open about what I like and dislike which was discussed at the very start and my current mistress is probably well aware of those things. If there is a progression it is most likely to involve increasing confidence and trust and an increasing intensity in sessions. It will also involve experimenting with new equipment or different roles and styles. I hope that we will be able to learn something from each other which will lead increasingly exciting experiences. The problem, as I see it, is how that development might occur. Unless there is time to sit down and discuss past sessions and to share ideas for future ones, then progress will be limited. That sort of interaction is pretty well impossible if sessions take place in premises rented by the hour. Of course, there is e-mail or the telephone but, as I've said before, I don't feel very comfortable about making too many demands on any mistress's time.

13-06-2010, 16:13	#1
subtle Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,037 Reputation: 190	The tale's the thing Really a question for those who like to see the same PD / sub / client over a long period of time: is a sense of narrative important to you? Do you like to see your sessioning as a kind of progress or development, or are you happier if things stay more or less the same? I guess the danger with stories is that they can lead inexorably to endings, but equally there may be plenty of twists and turns along the way. Do any PDs consciously create a sense of narrative with long-term clients, or do you think it's something that emerges more organically? __________________ careless of where the next bright bolt may fall

13-06-2010, 17:11	#3
Entropy Tango Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Barsoom Posts: 497 Reputation: 52	Cat O' 1001 Tales Wow. Great idea for a post. I guess it would depend on what sense you’re using the term narrative. If you’re sticking to a very rigid definition of it then maybe it’s only relevant to people who are into role-play... maybe with a common, underlying theme... and then each different session could become like a different chapter from the same novel. Yeah it might end... but those same characters can be spun off into a sequel :-) On the other hand, the concept of "journey" and it’s resemblance to narrative as a progression of elements in a session from a specific (novice?) starting point is also interesting. Now I personally link BDSM to pain play... so my views on narrative application to that is really the only thing I can personally, legitimately put down on this thread... but it seems to me that although I personally like the idea of a constant building up of elements (and in some ways this is actually what I’m getting... and not just in the pain thing... I was wearing a bloody maids uniform in the last session for goodness sake... now there’s a narrative twist I didn’t expect a year ago) I can see that a constant narrative build through a series of sessions is something that will have to be done very slowly. I guess there are two ways this could be applied to pain... and please correct me if I’m wrong because I almost certainly am as I haven’t been doing this stuff for very long. 1. A sense of increased... um... ferocity at various activities and the body’s eventual resilience to things could be considered an important narrative hook (and I consider myself a lightweight in some ways but I am always going to go back to try to put that right). 2. The other thing a domme might do is to vary the method of pain delivery I guess. Although this would presumably also have to be done very slowly because new equipment is expensive and you don’t want to be continually having to buy new, different equipment because your sub thinks s/he has seen it/done it all is my guess. Maybe customers like me in a professional relationship are a bonus in that kind of situation because I have a head like a sieve and so after a year or so I might forget I’ve done half the stuff and then it all seems new and fresh to me. Well that would be my take on it anyway. __________________ In Xanadu did Kubla Khan, a stately pleasure-dome decree... and then along Alana came and put me o’er her knee! www.nuts4r2.blogspot.com

13-06-2010, 20:33	#4
folly Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 967 Reputation: 32	This is a really interesting one. Realistically, there will be few dominants in any sphere of BDSM capable of acting out a long-term (several years) role-play. A good and sorted dominant will, I'd have thought, be sufficiently confident to be themselves through their own vicissitudes, so that the sub doesn't see too much that is different. Or the sub will be brought into the knowledge, depending on the degree of familiarity, trust and confidence, between them. Constructing a narrative is easy for me in terms of my introduction to BDSM, and my finding a way after that initial set of encounters. I have my own set of - let's call them moments - within my current play relationship, but there's no linear narrative there, as such. It's more about the moment, but within a framework that is joyfully painful, hopefully always respectful, and certainly in awe. Narratives tend to be linear. Kink life is much more about the here and now. __________________ For I am, as you see, that true and only giver of wealth whom the Greeks call moria, the Latins stultitia, and our plain English folly.

14-06-2010, 11:57	#7
snook Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Portslade Posts: 269 Reputation: 15	"But I was more thinking of recurring themes or something in one session building on something that had happened in a previous session etc etc." That starts me thinking about the sequence of events arranged as chapters in Venus in Furs. That could be very interesting, and I could imagine a fantasy, perhaps interweoven with everyday life, played out in interludes, as a play or a film, but I think it would have to be a prescribed, created and shaped thing and a tall order except for a group like a theatre company, or for a couple who have a strong mutual vested interst in it's satisfactions. The input could be far beyond what it is reasonable to ask of a pro-domme. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ftsnOO5lJI Last edited by snook; 14-06-2010 at 12:00.

16-06-2010, 21:23	#9
subtle Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,037 Reputation: 190	Thanks for the comments guys. I used to be in a situation where I felt (or hoped) that I was in a story where my Mistress knew what was going to happen and I didn't. This may have been largely illusory, but it did give the idea of a more prolonged surrender than a single session offers. It never seemed to go quite according to plan, possibly because I'm usually much happier being the driver than the passenger, and had a few doubts about the storyline too. Does kink have to be linear, folly? Lines can have kinks in them and still be lines But I think you're right that the "here and now-ness" of the best of kink is deliciously non-linear (and can set us free from that tyranny of a timeline). Except that to become more aware of, and open to this freedom is to me personally another kind of development, or education perhaps. Venus in Furs - I've found myself going down that route a little way, and wouldn't much fancy starring in the last chapters. (But as regards what it's reasonable to ask of a pro-domme, I think we should just keep raising the bar on that ) __________________ careless of where the next bright bolt may fall

13-06-2010, 16:47	#2
Lisal Guest Posts: n/a	We tend to do the same things now. Having been with her for such a long time we've experimented with/tried a number of things and we are at the stage where we both enjoy the things that we enjoy. Ours is very D/s based so some of the words she uses to underline this do develop and there are fantasy story lines which she enhances from time to time (especially when she gets a reaction!!!)

15-06-2010, 08:23	#8
geordiesouth Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7,259 Reputation: 108	Can only be answered by those in long term relationships with their domme I suppose. For me narrative is something in a book and as for linear. Don't Saab do a convertible one.

16-06-2010, 21:55	#10
Peter Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Kent Posts: 701 Reputation: 61	I wouldn't be unhappy if things stayed the same because I'm usually very open about what I like and dislike which was discussed at the very start and my current mistress is probably well aware of those things. If there is a progression it is most likely to involve increasing confidence and trust and an increasing intensity in sessions. It will also involve experimenting with new equipment or different roles and styles. I hope that we will be able to learn something from each other which will lead increasingly exciting experiences. The problem, as I see it, is how that development might occur. Unless there is time to sit down and discuss past sessions and to share ideas for future ones, then progress will be limited. That sort of interaction is pretty well impossible if sessions take place in premises rented by the hour. Of course, there is e-mail or the telephone but, as I've said before, I don't feel very comfortable about making too many demands on any mistress's time.