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Old 15-06-2010, 21:35   #1
Gullane2
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Default Pain with a Purpose

One of the objects recently discussed by Neil MacGregor in his fascinating Radio 4 series "A History of the World In 100 Objects" was a lintel from the doorway of a Mayan temple which depicts a royal blood-letting ceremony. As the BBC website explains:

"King Shield Jaguar III stands facing his wife, Lady Xook, as she pulls a rope embedded with thorns through her tongue. She is undertaking this painful ordeal in order to contact Shield Jaguar's ancestors in the spirit realm."



Are there any hardcore mistresses/subs who'd be up for this - Lisal perhaps? And, more seriously, does anyone have any thoughts on using pain as a means of accessing the spiritual world?

It's object number 51, in case you want to track down the podcast.
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Old 15-06-2010, 21:52   #2
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I saw that too, Gullane.

Lady Xook ...... she SAID that. What a pain slut!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryofthewo...Qbuz6uSNk-fw4w

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Old 16-06-2010, 06:26   #3
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i take pain not to contact the spiritual world as i don't believe in such stuff, there is a connection with my inner spirit
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Old 16-06-2010, 06:48   #4
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Hmmm...

I've never, to my knowledge, experienced this thing yet that a lot of people on here call "subspace"... unfortunately.

Not sure I'd recognise it if as such if it did happen but suspect there's probably a fairly strong scientific explanation of what causes that (if you really want to "analyse the joke" and demystify the whole experience).

However, I'm thinking that maybe this ritual you describe involving what sounds like pretty extreme pain is a quick access into a state of mind not entirely unlike what various people on here have experienced in some of their sessions. Perhaps a less scientificaly enlightened (and I'd definitely count myself in as being scientifically unenlightened... or at least uncomprehending) civilisation like the Mayans would have seen this as some kind "spiritual doorway".

Also... does a scientific explanation (presuambly envolving those pesky endorphins and such like) neccessarily devalidate the actuallity that this state of mind actually IS an entrance into a spirit world?

How about it? Does that make sense? Any subs on here who are fortunate enough to be able to get to what they call "subspace" and then found they've accidentally opened a portal into the spirit world (or John Malkovich, whatever)?
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Old 16-06-2010, 07:32   #5
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You are always going to have those out there who talk of enduring pain as being their way to show devotion to their mistress. Mistresses giving out torture to access their own personal high.

I've always said (in the good old days) handing over the tribute was about as much pain as I could ever stand.

Its not something I could ever comment on. Never having felt the need to feel this endorphine rush that others speak of.
Its been explained to me several times by friends who are into the more painfull side of things......................just goes over my head I am afraid.

As for accessing spiritualistic portals through torture (given or self inflicted).............Until someone actually shows me God, The devil, Different parallel universes and the like. I aint believing it.
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Old 16-06-2010, 07:38   #6
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Doesn't all pain serve a purpose?

Presumably those of us who play with pain do so for our own individual reasons but ultimately it does serve a purpose, whether for spiritual reasons or not.

As some of you are aware, pain is a subject that now fascinates me. I have just started reading a book Sacred Pain: Hurting The Body For The Sake Of The Soul by Ariel Glucklich He argues that 'the experience of ritual pain, far from being a form of madness or superstition, contains a hidden rationality and can bring about a profound transformation of the consciousness and identity of the spiritual seeker'.

Maybe I should come back to this topic when I've completed the book.

Interestingly, I actually bought the book a couple of years ago but am only getting round to reading it now. I think that's because I've been trying to understand my own 'relationship' with pain
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Old 16-06-2010, 20:41   #7
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I think pain can open some spiritual doors - if you're susceptible to that kind of prompting. Perhaps it depends on how individuals interpret the internal sensations that significant pain can produce. The fragments of eternity I've glimpsed in the middle of a slow heavy beating or ramped up electrics are certainly some of my favourite memories.

The only thing is that it seems to be a bit hit and miss, The crop or cane may always land squarely enough, but they don't always open up that additional dimension - possibly because there are too many other variables in the way, and too many other considerations. E.g. the Mistress in question may be focussed on a very different outcome.

I think that playing with someone who is equally open to these spiritual / symbolic dimensions must help a lot with this, because it probably has much to do, also, with a shared language, and common framework, within which these elements can have more space to grow. But I'm not at all sure how one would start looking for such a Mistress...
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Old 17-06-2010, 18:45   #8
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So, no volunteers for the rope-embedded-with-thorns-being-passed-through-the-tongue gig then?

Here's what psychotherapist Susie Orbach had to say about the effects of pain in the programme: "If you can create a feeling of pain in the body and you survive it, you can move into either a state of, not quite ecstasy, but out-of-the-ordinariness, a sense that you can transcend, you can do something rather special."

I've been experimenting in my last couple of sessions with the combination of pain and spirituality and, although I can't claim to have seen God, the devil, different parallel universes and the like, it's been... ummm... interesting, and rewarding, I'd say.

Btw, check out the statue of the Goddess Tara which is oject number 54 - phwoar!!!!!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryofthewo...R6GZe--IcHq6bA
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Old 17-06-2010, 20:27   #9
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Yeah but... 'spiritual' doesn't need to have any connection with religion - gods, devils or inbetweenies. Surely it's about connecting with a space that isn't easily described. I have my spiritual dimension, but it's by no means religious.

I've certainly experienced some wonderful head spaces - but as Entropy Tango intimates, there's no predicting when or how they might happen. They do or they don't, and if they don't, there'll be all kinds of other incredible things going on.

I don't think pain needs a purpose. People take or desire to take pain for all manner of reasons. It may be because as a sub or slave, it's being asked of you; it may be because the particular application connects directly to your groin, or indeed to the cerebral equivalent. I just like it, spiritual portal or not.
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Old 19-06-2010, 22:19   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folly View Post
I don't think pain needs a purpose. People take or desire to take pain for all manner of reasons.
yes but.... no but......... erm......

I do think that what the head does with pain is in many ways related to the purpose of pain, I agree that people take pain for a whole variety of reasons but I'm not sure whether I agree that pain doesn't necessarily need a purpose, but then I can only relate it to my experiences.

I have in the past looked in a very minimalistic way to spiritual guidance and experience to give comfort in life, and I have also enjoyed a variety of pain play, but I must admit I've never really put the two together. For me pain is generally about a number of reasons, its about power dynamics, about giving and receiving, and sometimes about discipline and sometimes about pleasure. I guess those have tended to be the most common for me. I have gone off into sub space occasionally where I find myself in a kind of blissful sense of happiness, but I don't really see the "spiritual connection" as such.
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